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Friday, July 26, 2019

Stakes

I was going to hold the following story until the blog went private. It contains elements that some may find odd, even objectionable. But there is no question that it is a story that raises a lot of questions and incorporates a lot of issues that come up in discussions of spanking, and DD, and BDSM play, perhaps in a truly unexpected way. So, because this story has so much potential for discussion and because some readers who have not participated here before expressed interest in being included in our private group, this piece might provide more than enough raw material for reactions, theories, comments, and questions. With that in mind, here we go …..

I have maintained for a long time that spanking between adults can be many things, sometimes separately and neatly boxed, and sometimes a blend with fuzzy edges. The following post is a true account of a recent development that illustrates the powerful complexity and cathartic influence spanking can have within non-sexual and ostensibly play-centered parameters.

Background: Probably about 8 years ago, after Rosa and I went open in our household, besides the kids being aware of how we lived, and being influential in genuine punishment recommendations for things that directly affected them, Rosa and I also showed that a good paddling need not be only serious punishment, or something sexual, but just something mischievously playful…...like the spanking games my generation at least played as kids. Or spanking dares among friends, or even birthday whacks.

One offshoot of this….besides a period when we did do Birthday whacks somewhat faithfully for all birthdays…………….always with me as the proxy recipient, was a thing we called “playing for stakes”. Briefly, it was an agreed-upon set of penalties for me when playing video games with the three of them. We didn’t do it all of the time, and some seemed to like the angle more than others, but all three definitely partook at one time or another.

The oldest, preferred Mortal Kombat. If he lost (which was super rare) he would be obliged to bring me a beer during TV time. If I lost (which was much more likely) he would inform his Mom, Rosa, and she would take me to the room for a visibly private, but easily audible, penalty paddling. Ana, used to like “Let’s Dance”. And the youngest, Osito, played Resident Evil with me on co-op mode. Osito went the furthest with a litany of conditions and situations that would add to the tally. We actually had to keep a scorecard to keep track of it all. Most of the numbers weren’t high in and of themselves, but when added together at the end, I usually was in for a pretty hot hinder! Eventually as they got older, the novelty wore off, and “playing for stakes” fell by the wayside. It is the way of things. 
A fairly accurate depiction of what used to be a fairly common occurrence when "playing for stakes" with my stepson, Osito.

This past year has been a challenging one with Osito. While being an extremely gifted and talented musician, he has little desire for much else. School became a problem. Work became a problem. Future plans for his post-high school life became a problem. And I did what I had always done as a parent. I stood firm, advised and warned, and with Rosa’s assistance established some pretty drastic ultimatums. It eventually worked and things are now improving. But it was rough at times and I had to be very hard on him at times as well. 

Recently I happened to see Osito watching some YouTube guys playing a Resident Evil 5 walk-through and at one point he said to me, “you know watching this kind of makes me want to play again.” I responded that I would be willing and that was how we left it. After that comment though I began to think more deeply on it and had an idea.

So a few days ago I took “Bunny”. (Bunny is a stuffed rabbit that has become a sort of extra family member. She even has her own Instagram account!  Bunny ends up everywhere, doing all sorts of things and ending up as texts, or posts or whatever. Bunny is also the family’s messenger for things people want to say that they don’t want to say themselves. Weird? Yes. But it’s fun and it works beautifully. Bunny has the freedom to be whatever her current 'handler' wants her to be….and no one can get mad at her because a: she’s too darned cute, and b: well………..she IS a fucking stuffed animal. LOL) I set up the following shot, sent it to my stepson and left it out for Osito to see in person when he got home from work. He was amused and interested. 


This is the actual photo that started it all!

So we talked about things in a definite blend of playful euphemism and serious directness. I explained that I thought he and I had gone through a pretty rough patch and that I had no regrets over how tough I had been. I mentioned how I raised my own son during a rough period and how close we are now. And then I told him that I was very proud of how he has gone about changing the stuff that needed to be changed. But despite my assertion that I did what I had to do, I also acknowledged that I was sure it wasn’t always easy for him to be on the receiving end of my authority. So…………...I told him that since he wanted to revisit Resident Evil with me, how would he feel about REALLY revisiting it…..like the old days…..with stakes. Only now that he was older, perhaps he’d like to dish out the penalties personally (I had naturally cleared this with Rosa. And even Ana ….who is very close to Osito…. texted it was “good. Good bonding time, >thumbs up emoji<”

I did not know how he would respond to the idea of actually doing the penalties, since his mother had always done it previously, but I told him the reason I was offering that possibility was so that if there was anything he was harboring, this could be a mutually-acceptable outlet. Surprisingly, he didn’t need convincing.

The rest of the day was spent with us hunting down replacement PS3 controllers and talking in the car about how this would go. He seemed very interested in how the penalties would work, but despite his past desire to make them complicated, this time he seemed to want to keep them interesting but easier to calculate. He suggested a system by which at each section’s end, when the game rated the players’ performance with letter grades, that my grades would have an amount attached to them and we would simply tally the 5 grades for a total. If you are a Resident Evil 5 fan we came up with this: S (the highest score) = 20, A = 30, B =50, C = 60, and the very unlikely but possible D =75. If  I played perfectly, the least I could get away with was 100 smacks with our long-handled wooden spoon.

Now, for the record, let me state clearly: we are both legal adults, and we are both straight males. (Osito has a girlfriend and I have my Rosa.) Neither of us are ‘bi’. So this was definitely more of a ‘guy thing’ than anything prurient. And even though we are both guys, I would still wear something that would keep my privates covered and only my cheeks exposed.

But before we started there was something I made sure to make very clear: In life there are always situations where you have to obey someone else...whether it’s a parent or teacher, or boss. However, those roles can shift depending on the situation so that a person’s expertise in a particular area might result in them reversing a hierarchy. ( A worker might run a choir on the side, and perhaps one day their boss might join the choir. At work the boss is the boss, but during choir practice the worker/choir director is in charge and the daytime boss is just one more   singer who needs to follow the director’s lead.) So I told Osito that, yes, he still needs to make sure he is doing what we have laid out for him as his parents, but during this game, HE, by virtue of being better at the game and with my consent, is the lead partner. He can decide what weapons I have to use, what penalties I might have to suffer, and most especially HE alone gets to decide the pace, rhythm, and severity of the paddling I get at the end. I told him at that point, despite my usual role in the house with him, my only options are to bend over, stay in position as best as I can, and take whatever he decides to dish out…...maybe not silently LOL, but definitely without complaint or objection.

And then…...we played the first round. I had thought I would be rustier than I was and I actually played pretty well. I was pretty accurate, and didn’t die even once. As we played and discussed the game, I mentioned how well I was doing, and then just as I said it, I sort of laughed to myself. Osito asked what did I find funny, and I said, “I just realized that even though I’m doing much better than I thought, even if I play perfectly, I am still going to get a decent paddling no matter what.” And that’s exactly what happened. My score was pretty good with two S’s, two A’s and just one B, but even that performance added up to 150 smacks.

Without much fuss, we went to a spot where I could flop over some pillows and present a good target, and I lowered my shorts so I was wearing only a thong type underwear, bent over and waited. To his credit, Osito was very considerate. He started a bit gently and said that he didn’t want to have me end up like I did with Nickki’s last punishment…..which I had to laugh and agree with. And then just said, look I’m going to experiment with ten or so that won’t count to get the hang of this and then we’ll start counting. I gave him some feedback telling him when he was in the right range and then said that he could start there but to feel free to ramp things up as he continued. And that’s what he did. It wasn’t a mild spanking, nor a severe one, and the last 50 or so were crisp enough to make me ouch and grunt, but the worst part for me was that he deliberately wanted to deliver the penalty in one-cheek installments of 25! I hate that! But what could I say? This was Osito doing exactly what I told him was his prerogative to do, namely paddle in the style he wanted. So I squirmed and winced through these 25 swat flurries that landed on the same spot over and over. Man that hurt!. And then? It was over.


Not age accurate, nor was I naked.....just bare-cheeked....but the sentiment is there.

The following day we were set to play the next section and I asked if he thought he wanted to restrict my arsenal more to make things more challenging and he agreed saying he was thinking the same thing. However, despite all that, I still played better than even I expected and ended up with a slightly lower score rather than a higher one: 140. However, with all of our discussion, and with some added feedback on the day before, Osito was more relaxed and prepared to ramp things up even more to his liking than mine. Doing the math he said that today he would do 20 swat salvos instead of 25 with the last 20 split 10 and 10. And this time the swats were going to be noticeably harder. There was no doubt he intended to make this sting. I struggled through all of it and was more vocal than usual, though I never once complained or tried to stop him…..just as I had promised. I just let him roast my butt. Afterwards I was pretty red and even this morning I’m definitely feeling it down there. LOL


Again, the age and certainly the position are far from accurate, but this definitely illustrates that uncontrollable wriggling, accompanied by the inevitable grunts and ouches that as the older party I wanted to avoid but couldn't. I feel like once this starts happening all stoic dignity is lost. And that is sort of what happened. If Osito wanted to feel like the tables were truly turned, my reactions certainly provided convincing proof. There is simply no way for me, no matter what my experience level may be, to have my youngest stepson reduce me to this state and not feel humbled. Even if it never happened again (which it will) there is no way to ignore that this is what his spanks resulted in.


The thing is we were supposed to play again today but he told me there was a change of plans and we would have to postpone the next section for another time. I joked back that I was actually grateful for the delay since he had done such a number on me that a hard spanking today would be horrible. He smiled a big grin and said that he had started to feel like he was going too easy at first and so he decided that he needed to crank things up a few notches before he finished. I assured him he succeeded and he snickered.

But despite my intentions for this bonding adventure, and my expectations for how it would play out, I ended up being surprised yesterday by an unexpected reaction of my own. I went into this thinking the playing of the game would be our bonding time, his authority would be a life lesson on how roles can shift but that one needs to respect the authority figure in each situation, and that the penalty phase would be a sort of comeuppance twist for me….just like in the old days, and a possible outlet for any buried resentment for him. And while all of that I think did happen to some degree, I found myself feeling also bonded by the shared duality of the penalty phase. I dd not expect that.

One of my personal issues with him within this past year has been a kind of deep resentment over his behavior. It made it very difficult to interact even at times when there wasn’t a storm brewing. There was just too much going on. In the recent past, there were several times when I truly wanted to strangle that kid…..or at least give him a good pop, but naturally I never did. Now instead of engaging in some sort of sanctioned activity, like perhaps a volleyball game or something physical where I could ‘beat his ass’ and purge that pent-up anger, here I was LITERALLY having my ass beaten instead...and beaten hard! One would think that being spanked hard by someone one resents would make that feeling worse, and yet it seemed to have the opposite effect. So while I was gripping the sheets and struggling to endure the consecutive cheek-smacks, I found that because, especially that second day, he had me truly struggling to comply and genuinely ouching like a punished schoolboy, instead of a negative reaction, I felt both humbled and respectful. Later on I found myself even acting more gently with Osito. I felt more calm with him. I was more solicitous. 

One theory is that enduring the pain itself is a physical release, just like venting energy outward. Another possibility is that because I am a long time practitioner of this lifestyle, that my wiring is such that the mere act of sharing this activity with someone, even male, even someone I have had struggles with, is enough to forge a kind of connection. In my case perhaps the sharing of the two sides of the coin is more important than which side I am on. I am very open to hearing other speculations. I find it bewildering and unexpected…..but it is very, very real. 

And we are far from finished. Despite the break today I am 'committed' to a minimum of two more chapter sections, after which we might stop the stakes, amend them and continue, or continue without changes. While I don't know what Osito will want to do after the next two sections, I do know from talking to him that he is definitely expecting to play and then paddle me for these two upcoming ones. Regardless of his past reluctance to do the paddling himself, he definitely doesn't seem to mind this time.

32 comments:

  1. complex relationships have complex outcomes. a step son is complex enough let alone one where son knows what mom does to dad.

    i can certainly agree with the energy venting for both the giver and receiver.

    good to hear the plan came together

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    1. It definitely seems to be working for both of us though he is not overly vocal about his thoughts. Still it's not like we live in separate bubbles and the topic came up just recently when I picked him up from work. Despite not being prone to elaborate on ANYTHING (except music) he gave no indication by word or expression that he wanted to stop and instead seemed pleased with himself on the effectiveness of his paddling as he grinned and admitted to purposely upping the force of his swats when he felt he wasn't going hard enough.

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    2. I'm terrible at video games so it would not work out well for me either KD.

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    3. Precisely why it could work out very well for the person you were playing 🥴😉

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    4. Hey ss, I REALLY need you to email me through my contact link! I do not want to have you get shut out and I can't add you without an email address. (Stupid Blogger)!

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  2. I am usually pretty goood at "feeling" my way into situation. But I do have a hard time to understand the dynamic between Osito and you.

    And I do not really understand why you chose to let him spank you. Maybe it is "a guy´s thing".

    I do recognize though that you made yourself vulnerable to him. And I always like men who have the courage to show their vulnerability. I think that´s a wonderful thing.

    For me, personally, the idea of spanking my stepdad feels overwhelming. It´s too much of a role conflict for me.

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    1. All good points, lawyer. Our dynamic is very complicated on some levels and pretty straightforward on others.

      The idea of playing this particular game this way would be a little like if we were used to going fishing and always knew Rosa would pack us chicken salad sandwiches. Then after a lapse there was a desire to go fishing again only this time he would make the sandwiches.

      The interesting thing about our open family is that everyone here sees nothing in the lifestyle that demeans anyone. It was always about taking responsibility and accepting consequences no matter who you technically are.

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    2. The sandwich analogy is interesting. Took me a while to understand what you are saying, but I think I got it now.

      Maybe spankings have a bigger fun element for you than they have for me.
      For me, spankings are never part of a game. I usually give the spankings, but I have been spanked by only two guys. The one was my first love and the other is my husband. For both men I would "jump in front of a car". And me letting them spank me was my way of letting them know: I give myself in your hands. I trust you completely.

      I had been thinking earlier that you maybe felt guilty for being so harsh on Osito and just wanted to clear the air with him.

      Or maybe you just wanted to tell him in a non-verbal way: Kiddo, I love you.

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    3. That spankings can have a 'fun' element for me is a definite yes.....at times. I think that's what I meant by how many facets spankings can have...either separately or even simultaneously.

      I can say that my intention was not so much guilt, because I specifically addressed that in my first talk with him. I have no regret or apology over what transpired. I know I did the right thing even if it was harsh at times. I believe this was my way of say "certain situations sometimes require harshness. When I was being that way with you under those circumstances, it was the appropriate way to handle the situation. BUT I am not almighty and infallible. In other areas you may well be more suited to lead. And in the course of that, it might be perfectly acceptable for you to be harsh with me. Tomorrow, if there is a lapse in your behavior, I may again need to be harsh with you. It is a circle. No one is perennially worthy of permanent authority in all situations."

      And your last line is part of it too. A non-hugging or sentimental guy's way to do it.

      (I just checked your profile. I know your blog and used to follow it for a while. I think there were some times where you stopped or took some breaks and I think at that time I lost track. I think I even left a comment or two way, way back.)

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  3. I'm still kind of processing this one, as I don't think I have any real corollary to it or similar motivations. I definitely don't have any desire to have our kids have any role at all in the DD aspects of our household, though I don't object if my wife tells them about it. Where I struggle with it is around whether it would send mixed messages to a kid who was having trouble and might need more "tough love" in the future? We got pretty lucky with our kids, but it seems like if dealing with kids who are really struggling, including with authority, mixing up the chain of command could be a problem.

    On the other hand, there was a period when I actively wanted revenge on my own father for a spanking. It's about the only spanking I actually remember, and what I recall is it was both undeserved and excessive. And, it was for those reasons that I used to have pretty serious fantasies about getting older and bigger and being able to knock him on his ass. But, it's not quite the same thing as you describe, because you do not think your actions with your step-son were excessive or inappropriate.

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    1. Even though you are processing, I am glad you chose to respond to this one. I was thinking about you when i posted this since you had once or twice mentioned the effect of getting spanked by a male.

      I know also that you see things through a DD lens and don't easily relate to the times I talk about the multi-facets of spanking for me. I will say that these interactions are not DD-based. He does of course have DD options via slips, that would need Rosa's approval like he used in the past, but he has not tried to accuse me of anything punishment-worthy. This is more of what I tried to explain in the post; an ostensibly 'fun' exchange, revolving around a favorite video game.....but that carries penalties reminiscent of a simpler past time between us....only now with an added element that might allow for some emotional processing through an acceptable outlet not based on any serious act of behavior or misbehavior.

      I do not foresee this leading to authority issues. But then you would have to really know me in real life I think to see why I am not even slightly worried about that. It's why I am not afraid to be out. I truly feel sorry for anyone who mistakes my occasional submission for weakness, or who thinks because Rosa spanks me, or even others, that I can be pushed around. Osito knows me too well to make that mistake.

      (I'd be interested to hear more from you as you mull this one around. I am hoping this post generates some good exchanges all around.)

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    2. My concern wouldn't really be around him mistaking taking a spanking for weakness, but more about creating confusion about the hierarchy or chain of command. My answer to those who have concerns that a woman spanking her husband may cause the children to lose respect for him has always been that it won't happen as long as she is clear that she may rule the roost, but he is second in command, leaving the kids still at the bottom of that hierarchy.

      Regarding getting spanked by a male, any attraction around that for me is purely around what you say is not present in what you are doing with your step-son, i.e. disciplined and being involuntarily dominated. Being spanked by a male as part of a game doesn't hold much attraction.

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    3. I think my struggle with the hierarchy issue is similar to Lawyer's question as to whether you are sending an ambiguous message. You told hi8m you don't have any regrets about being hard on him, but then you seem to suggest that one of the purposes of allowing him to spank you is to give him a "possible outlet for any buried resentment." That does seem to me to be a potentially ambiguous message. If the underlying (non-spanking) discipline you doled out to him was justified, fair and for his own good, then why does he get an outlet for any resentment? You also said you were trying to teach him some lessons about how authority varies by context, but does it really work that way outside the home? If my boss chastises me for problem behavior at work, I don't get to turn the tables. And, frankly I shouldn't be able to if he was calling me out for legitimate bad behavior and correcting it really benefited me in the long run.

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    4. Great analogy because it will allow me to explain it even better. No, you don’t get to get revenge on your boss at work for something you admit you screwed up on. And neither does Osito.

      But what if you run the town softball team and one day your boss joins? Suppose further that everyone on the team knows that if they miss an easy ground ball at practice the standard penalty is running two laps around the bases. Suppose one day your boss makes such an error? Would it be right to not have him run the laps everyone else does because he’s your boss during the day?

      Now suppose he sees everyone looking at him and says “hey no problem. I signed up for the team and these are the rules. I’ll run the laps.”

      Suppose further one day after he yelled at you at work and you were brooding over it, the same thing happened? You didn’t force it. He just made another error and had to run laps. Would it be a stretch to say that maybe for that day you might feel a little smug at the turnaround.....even though you deserved being reprimanded at work and he deserved to run the laps?

      Same thing. And as I said, just as you and that boss would have no issue with what was happening nor confusing the hierarchy within the separate contexts..... so far at least, neither are we.

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    5. "Suppose further one day after he yelled at you at work and you were brooding over it, the same thing happened? You didn’t force it. He just made another error and had to run laps. Would it be a stretch to say that maybe for that day you might feel a little smug at the turnaround.....even though you deserved being reprimanded at work and he deserved to run the laps?"

      I'm not sure that analogy matches the situation though. In your scenario, the boss is running laps because he made an error, and I feel smug about it. But, in that scenario, BOTH of us would have been subject for running laps for committing the same error AND, when my boss made the error I was not the one making him run the laps. Further, my boss didn't come to me and say, "Hey, I was right to yell at you and you did deserve it, but in order to help you process your feelings about that more, I'll let you order me to run an extra two laps just because I know you resent that I yelled at you when you deserved it."

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    6. >>>>>>I'm not sure that analogy matches the situation though. In your scenario, the boss is running laps because he made an error, and I feel smug about it. But, in that scenario, BOTH of us would have been subject for running laps for committing the same error AND, when my boss made the error I was not the one making him run the laps. Further, my boss didn't come to me and say, "Hey, I was right to yell at you and you did deserve it, but in order to help you process your feelings about that more, I'll let you order me to run an extra two laps just because I know you resent that I yelled at you when you deserved it."<<<<<

      I am confused by this. In my example you as the team's coach is DEFINITELY 'making' the boss run the usual penalty of laps for a missed catch. And as coach, you are NOT going to subject to running laps yourself. And no one is voluntarily running extra laps for anything. The laps are the laps. All I said it was natural for a person who might feel grumbly over something to find some satisfaction in the laps.....even if they aren't connected. How many times do people nod and smile at some misfortune that befalls someone they may feel a certain way about, feeling like it was some providence/karmic thing?

      So if you go back to the precise scenario I set out, can you not see the similarities?

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    7. You're right, I didn't run it closely enough and didn't catch that in your scenario I am the coach, But, I still don't see it as the same, because in your scenario my boss does not come to me and say, "Hey, your work sucked and I was in the right to discipline you for it, bu how about you let me play on your softball team and if I commit an error you can make me run double the laps as everyone else, because that will help you express any resentment you have over the fact that I rightly disciplined you at work."

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    8. Fair enough, I will give you that aspect can color it in a way. However, that was not the sole reason for offering reviving "stakes" and I mentioned that to him only as a possibility. I don't know if he is thinking that way about it or if he is just having fun with the limited authority to 'turn the tables'? I only speculate that given his .....'enthusiasm'.....it could be a part of it. However, he seemed more focused on equating the game penalties with actual aspects OF the game....just like he used to before...except more concisely.

      Interestingly, something happened yesterday of significance and for whatever reason, it played out FAR more positively between both of us than situations like it had in the recent past. Whether there is a connection between the recent Resident Evil exchange and how we are both reacting to it, is impossible to tell. However, with all of the concern expressed, (and understandably given) I find it interesting that real life so quickly gave me cause to think that more good is coming out of our silly "stakes" game than harm.

      Without going into detail, Osito had a problem that was essentially his fault but which affected me directly. In the past he would be very defensive about stuff like that and his reluctance to take ownership would make me less patient. Yesterday, however, he took full ownership, acted in a contrite manner, and agreed to the very fair consequences of his mishap. As a result, I was less inclined to come down hard, and almost miraculously, something that 6 months ago would have ruined the weekend, ended up being resolved smoothly.

      Coincidence? Maybe. The inevitability of the progress I already felt he was making and was sort of 'rewarding' with the "stakes" angle? Maybe. Was there a tangible bonding during both the game and the penalty phase that colored our handling of it? Also....maybe. All I know is it happened. Doing the game as described certainly did not worsen a situation that typically went worse in the past. So, who knows?

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    9. It's a tough line for parents to draw. On the one hand, there is some truth to if you treat people like children you tend to get childish behavior, and if you treat people like adults they tend to act like adults. But, I also do get Lawyer's concerns about the potential problems with treating kids as if they have adult decision-making capabilities, adult freedom of action, and can emotionally handle making adult decisions. In the end, I have no real explanation for why I want DD and feel a compulsion to have boundaries imposed but, if I had to guess, I think the most likely culprit is being given way too much freedom and way too much resulting responsibility at too early an age. Just because young people can make adult decisions doesn't mean they should.

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    10. I see all of the points both you and lawyer (I believe her name is Tina) have been making. I do see them. And it's because of the risks involved in doing stuff like this that so many conditions went into whatever cross-over there was. Meaning that they had decisions to make, yes, but they all needed approval. It was never a "kids run the show/Nickelodeon universe" here. In fact, I believe we were very measured in the same way a parent can decide depending on a lot of circumstances whether it is OK for a kid to have a sip of wine with dinner, or see a movie that is not rated for their age group. How many parents buy their kids video games whose ratings are labeled above their age group?

      It's interesting to see where people draw their lines. I believe that was an irony pointed out by activists for less censorship......that Americans ( like Tumblr ) will freak out over a nipple but be OK with heavy gore and violence.

      Interestingly I got to talk about all of this with Ana today. She did not know what I wrote to Tina but said the same thing.....that given her background, growing up in open DD is downright tame. She also gave me her opinion on why both her brother and I seem to be willing to play "for stakes" again after the period where we did not. And she also said that yesterday's "emergency" could very well have played out more smoothly due in part to the recent game exchanges.

      Anyway, I knew writing this would result in some strong reactions. I wish more folks would offer up some ideas.

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    11. I do agree that line drawing is pretty . . . idiosyncratic. And, seemingly pretty culturally dependent. And, personally, in choosing a good movie or TV show I strongly prefer nudity, "adult situations" and violence, and generally the more the better. Probably why I like series as varied as The Sopranos and Game of Thrones. But, in fairness to line drawers everywhere, this is one line where you do seem to be kind of on one side and pretty much every one else is on the other. Every time I have raised the idea of kids and DD on my blog over the years, most commenters have voiced *strong* negative opinions about their kids (adult or minors) even knowing about that aspect of their relationship. A few obviously do, but even those who say they are relatively open about that define that as kids knowing about it and, at most, maybe overhearing one taking place. You are the only one I can recall that has expressed comfort with them not just knowing but participating in the DD process on any level.

      Though, the line drawing around what level of violence we are comfortable with, including between fathers and sons, does seem to me to come down in some cases to the degree it is associated in some way with something potentially sexual. It was not uncommon where I grew up for boys to at some point decide they'd had it with their overbearing dads and, usually unwisely, call them out. Hell, Garth Brooks has a whole song devoted to it called "The Night I Called the Old Man Out."

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    12. >>>>>>"But, in fairness to line drawers everywhere, this is one line where you do seem to be kind of on one side and pretty much every one else is on the other."<<<<<<

      Just on THIS? LOL I feel like I live on the other side of the line.

      On this one it's important to remember that I did not do this with my biological family. And for this family it was Rosa's desire to do it and that I was hesitant about it. Then when the world didn't come crashing down and instead everyone seemed to be enjoying the openness, I got comfortable with it and then, as is my propensity, I used my imagination to add new twists and turns....again with her approval and their consent or interest. It also has been mentioned MANY times by myself and others, that the unique dynamic of our situation probably has a lot to do with it. That could be another reason for the minority opinion. Had my previous marriage never ended, I'd probably be on the same line as most others since my experience would be limited to a biological family with a somewhat conservative wife/mother. A lot of this has to do with specifics. Change the situation, change the personalities, change almost anything, and who knows what my opinion might be now? (If say, I reluctantly tried to live openly trusting the people involved, and just one of the three was a mean-spirited person who then told people in inappropriate settings what was going on or even exaggerating it for their own amusement....I could be a voice today saying "Don't dot it! I tried it and it was a disaster!"

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  4. My stepdad never spanked me, but he slapped me in the face once, when I was a teenager. I felt utterly humiliated by it and resented him for years.

    Just recently, when I had my church wedding, I asked him to lead me to the altar. The rest of the family was very surprised that I wanted him to do that. They all knew that our relationship had been challenging over the years. Our family situation is of such that it would have been very easy for me to not even invite my stepdad to the wedding.

    But I wanted my stepdad to lead me to the altar( my real dad passed away a few years ago) because it was my way of making peace with the past. I was non-verbally telling him: "We are both adults now. We have both spent the last 40 years in the same family, we ARE family."

    I dont ever want to spank him or be spanked by him though. There is no authority whatsoever between the two of us now. Just two grown up people on equal footing. He leads his life, I lead my life, and neither one of us has any say in the other persons life.

    I am very very confused by the following comment you made:

    "I do not foresee this leading to authority issues. But then you would have to really know me in real life I think to see why I am not even slightly worried about that. It's why I am not afraid to be out. I truly feel sorry for anyone who mistakes my occasional submission for weakness, or who thinks because Rosa spanks me, or even others, that I can be pushed around. Osito knows me too well to make that mistake."

    I think you are sending a very ambiguous message. I do think that it takes strength to submit to a spanking. I have said that a hundred times on my blog over the last years.

    I never took your occasional submission for weakness. I can actually feel your dominant vibes through the thousands and thousands of miles that we are physically separated.

    But now I am wondering: are you even really submitting?
    I mean : are you submitting emotional? Sounds like that for you it is more of a physical submitting only. You hint that everybody understands that you are the authority figure still. But if that is so obvious to the people around you, arent you playing with Osito only?

    It feels like: you are giving him something, namely the power to spank you in the context of the game, but at the same time you make clear that it is your prerogative to take that power away from him any time you chose. Doesn`t that make him really powerless?

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    1. >>>>>>I think you are sending a very ambiguous message.<<<<<

      I think without the conversations around it and the years of living together it certainly could be. And based on someone reading a single account of it, I can see how it might seem that way. But so far he and I both seem to be on the same page.


      >>>>>>I never took your occasional submission for weakness. I can actually feel your dominant vibes through the thousands and thousands of miles that we are physically separated.<<<<<

      I found this interesting and it made me smile.

      >>>>>But now I am wondering: are you even really submitting?
      I mean : are you submitting emotional? Sounds like that for you it is more of a physical submitting only. You hint that everybody understands that you are the authority figure still. But if that is so obvious to the people around you, arent you playing with Osito only?

      It feels like: you are giving him something, namely the power to spank you in the context of the game, but at the same time you make clear that it is your prerogative to take that power away from him any time you chose. Doesn`t that make him really powerless?<<<<<<<<

      In this instance with this game that's pretty close to what I'm doing, it is on the surface "playful", but he also knows if I commit to something, I keep my word. As it stands, I am pledged to a minimum of 4 rounds under these "play" conditions. So far we have done two. The last one ended with a paddling that left me honestly sore for a day and a half. It was not in any way easy to take and all through it I just struggled to endure it rather than laugh at it and enjoy the game-aspect. And there are two more coming. He may very well paddle me just as hard, maybe go easy (but I doubt it) or even ramp it up even more. And in that regard he knows I will not take the power away from him merely because it hurts too much. So his power is limited to the game, but within those parameters, it's genuine.

      The issues I addressed in this "play" situation though transcend mere play penalty though. But those offshoots are nuanced. So, even though on the surface, it's a game with penalties built in for me alone.....the execution of those penalties don't exist in a vacuum, but rather a continuum. So, if there are other feelings under the surface, he and I both can sort of let them out in the penalty phase....where they can be channeled safely......and that is sort of what has happened and what I have been writing about.

      On the other hand, outside of the game and the ramifications of poor accuracy, or getting killed, there are issues of REAL behavior during daily life. And in this regard there is a hierarchy we both must respect and have also had no problem navigating in the last ten years, and that is that authority to punish or to address behavior ultimately rests with his mother, my wife, Rosa. As such, as stepfather, I have a lot of authority with his behavior, but as his biological mother, she has the final say. Conversely, if you've read anything about our open lifestyle, you know that all of the kids, along with some trusted friends have the authority to at the very least report or complain about some misbehavior or issue with me to Rosa, and if it is true, and she agrees I messed up, I can be punished for it. Ernesto knows that this ability for him to deal with me is as real as the authority I have to deal with him and his behavior. As the adult, based on my experience and knowledge, I do sort of rest in the middle of the hierarchy and he may be below me, but it is not a position of powerlessness by any means. Behavior drives the consequences, regardless of who is ostensibly "in charge".

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    2. You might kick me off your blog, if you do, I understand. I just wanna say that I dont agree with your assessment of the situation.

      You, for your own life, chose the spanking lifestyle. Spankings, very generally speaking, are something that is fun for you, something that turns you on.

      AFAIK Osito never actively chose to engage in any spanking activity with you. You were the one who wanted it and brought it up.

      You insist on being an authority figure for Osito. You seem convinced that it is your "job" as a stepdad to tell him how to behave in life. He is still under your authority. That is very one sided. Can he tell you things like e.g. not to have a second glass of wine at a party? Can he tell you with authority to exercise more or take better care of your health? I highly doubt that.

      You were the one who was angry with him. You wanted to get rid of your OWN pent up anger towards him.
      It is very much about you. Not about Osito.
      "So while I was gripping the sheets and struggling to endure the consecutive cheek-smacks, I found that because, especially that second day, he had me truly struggling to comply and genuinely ouching like a punished schoolboy, instead of a negative reaction, I felt both humbled and respectful. Later on I found myself even acting more gently with Osito. I felt more calm with him. I was more solicitous. "

      You manipulated him into spanking you so that you could feel calmer.

      The one giving the spanking is the one giving energy and attention. It seems very strange to me that you wanted to get something from Osito.

      In my opinion it would have been more consistent when you had done something for him that really had been difficult and unpleasant for you. Something boring and vanilla, like e,g, giving him your car while you take the bus instead.

      The fact that you "graciously" allowed him to spank you is debased by the fact that you generally enjoy spankings.

      It almost feels like you are saying: Osito, I have put so much energy in you, now it ´s time for you to reciprocate. Put some energy in me and give me something that always energizes me: a long, hard spanking.

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    3. First, I would never "kick someone off the blog" for disagreeing with me. It is what this blog (and I believe discussions in general are about......otherwise it's a very boring conversation.)

      I will actually say that when I read your take, I could actually see that there could be some validity in parts of it, but not all of it. I would have to ask first how much of my blog you have read? Have you read about my history with my family and all of the nuances involved? Do you know Rosa's part in all of it, as the biological Mom? Did you read the series of posts, "Inside a DD Family" where Osito along with his sister give direct testimony to what it meant to live the way we do? If so, and you still feel the same way, then fine. It is your opinion....and I do seek opinions. However, if you have not then it might be appropriate to evaluate the validity of an opinion based on one post, and a couple of comments. (Could you sum up the very wide range of experiences I recall you covering on your blog in one post?)

      "Playing for stakes" was something Osito very much enjoyed at one time, took a break from at another, and seems to be enjoying again. All this post was meant to convey was how reinstating this "game" has affected me in particular due to the changes in circumstances since the time we stopped.

      To make this even clearer, there was a point a while back where the idea of doing exactly what we're doing now came up and we even hashed out a lot of what the rules would be. But then, just before we were about to start, Osito had a change of heart and told me that even though it seemed like a good idea when we were plotting it all out, the more he thought about it, the more he felt he'd rather not. And that was that. We scrapped the idea and there was no repercussion to the decision. It's how we operate. Everything is mutual, and everyone has veto power over situations that are not wanted. This time it only came up because of the coincidences mentioned in the original post. And as I said in that post, Osito did not wince, or waver, or express reluctance. Instead he smiled in a "yeah, this could be fun" kind of way and the day went on with mutual rule and penalty discussion as we scrounged up new PS3 controllers. At any point, he was totally free to say he didn't want to do this, but it became pretty obvious....by both his active involvement in how to rate the scoring and chapter play, and by his very energetic administration of the penalties earned, that this was not something forced upon him or that he was reluctant to do.

      As for concessions to Osito of a more vanilla nature......LOL, you have no idea. But how could you? You don't live with us, nor have I written about them.

      I also have to say, there is certainly a part of this I find 'fun'.....but just as I have no clue what turns you on or off, I question whether anyone, no matter how familiar they are with us, can accurately assess that.

      Also, Osito does have certain 'authority' as Rosa's son if I was to do something that affected him that wasn't fair or right. (I have written about this at length in the past. ) But he is a fraction of my age, so when it comes to life, I do believe I am a bit more qualified to make certain calls.

      But that both his mother and me are actually horrible, self-deluded manipulators instead of very open parents IS a possibility. I suppose we could be and not think so. Most parents think they're acting correctly even when they're not. And I suppose my mother was a master manipulator as well in her own way.....even though she never gave me a shot at her during a game. LOL

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    4. Ok, good to know that I am still welcome here.

      "But that both his mother and me are actually horrible, self-deluded manipulators instead of very open parents IS a possibility."

      I did not say one single word about his mother. Not one single word. I do understand her. Her and Ana´s behavior are very clear to me.

      "Most parents think they're acting correctly even when they're not."
      In all honesty, I do think indeed that in regard to the things you described in the post that you are making a big mistake.

      "(Could you sum up the very wide range of experiences I recall you covering on your blog in one post?)"
      I am a lawyer. This in itself makes me a know it all ;-)

      But to give you a serious answer:
      I am also a mediator and trained in reading and understanding family dynamics and systems.

      As for my private life: I had my own first relationship at the age of 35. From age 12, yes 12!, to 35 I was adviser, counselor, helper, and fixer for many many many families and relationships.

      Due to the fact that I did not have my own relationship/sex-life etc I was focused on watching and learning and dealing with other peoples relationships.

      I got drawn into adult stuff at a way too young age.

      I was like Ana. I did not realize that I am too young for it. I did not think there is a problem. I was fine with doing age inappropriate stuff. I was fine with learning about my dad´s sex life as a teenager.

      As Ana, I thought: this will only help me in life.
      But:
      A humans brain is not fully developed until age 20 or so. A kid cant process things like an adult.

      I do strongly believe that you made a huge mistake in involving the kids. The fact that you offer me the Ana interview as a testimony for how great things are in your family does actually shock me. In her interview there are about 50 red flags for me. The fact that you cant see it is worrisome for me.

      And as for Osito:

      "But then, just before we were about to start, Osito had a change of heart and told me that even though it seemed like a good idea when we were plotting it all out, the more he thought about it, the more he felt he'd rather not."
      So what you are saying is basically: He had told you he would rather not... and nevertheless you brought it up again some time later.

      "when it comes to life, I do believe I am a bit more qualified to make certain calls."
      You are showing a big ambiguity here again. One the one hand you wanna be like one of the kids, like: "hey, lets play a video game, that´s fun and the loser has to do something". I actually did play that sort of game too, but as a teenager/kid. I understand the appeal of it.

      But now you are an adult. And you claim authority over the kids. It is just impossible to be one of the kids and an authority figure at the same time.
      You are picking the cherries of both worlds. That might work if your partner is a smart/experienced/powerful and thoughtful man, but not when he is a teenager/young adult.

      You tought Osito from age 9 that this lifestyle is cool. He believes you. And you claim the right to make certain calls for him. He looks up to you. Please dont switch roles now and pretend to be a kid who is just having fun with him. Do whatever you wanna do with your wife, but please dont involve any of the kids anymore.

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    5. I believe you are being as sincere as possible with your opinion and advice, and as I stated in the preliminary paragraph, I knew posting this account would be controversial, so I am not surprised by your response.

      That said, I do have to admit that I don't think any of us knows for sure what our having done things this way will mean for these three, but as the expression goes, "that ship has sailed". I personally tend to doubt that of all the things they have been through, that our open DD lifestyle, and their limited and controlled involvement in it at the times they wished to be involved, will be in the top 5 of detriments.

      As for going forward, your advice is duly noted, but everyone is now an adult with no one being forced into anything. What happens going forward will be determined by us together. And I don't know why, maybe it is luck of our personalities, the relative intelligence of those involved, or the myriad of protections we have always placed around the more controversial aspects, or a combination of all of that, but it seems we all have done very well picking the cherries of both worlds.

      Humans are complex, and some capable of more complexity than others. There is a member of our household who had very limited interest in taking any more than a brief and minor part and then preferred not to. He was never pressured to do more than he ever wanted....and he did want 'some'. But out of the three, each has always been able to find their own level and that has seemed to work so far.

      There was probably more I could say, but I think it would not necessarily further the discussion so some thoughts I will keep to myself. Again, your participation has been welcome as is an further participation you may choose to do.

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  5. I'm glad you found a "bonding" with Osito.

    I've done similar with Shilo in the past (and oh how I miss those times!) and adding penalties for various things.

    Since I don't know what our future may hold, but I have a pretty clear idea (unfortunately) you and Dan are becoming more of a lifeline for me, and the memories will have to do (unless you move to Southern California? LOL!)

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    1. Well we are here and hopefully will be when you need us.

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  6. Phew. all that commentary was a lot to digest.

    I have had the opportunity to experience a very wide and diverse set of communities over my life. And I don't just mean those associated with kink-world. I mean communes, insular families, off-beat religions seen by many as cultist. And of course I read a lot too.

    So I come from a place not of judging according to a fixed set of values that match my own preference. But more of an anthropological slant if you will.

    KD's family is unique and has evolved along the lines of his interests. I think the core values of openness, conscious risk-taking, and having some fun are strong positive indicators. The "spanking thing" doesn't seem to have the emotional/social baggage it does in my world, that's for sure.

    Regarding the Male on Male thing. Not an appealing scenario for me. But, as K.D. knows, because I discussed it with him, a while ago I was feeling so desperately in need of a punishment session that I was considering finding an adult male (gay or otherwise didn't matter) just to get it done. That wold have been a first, and probably wold have screwed with my mind, - maybe not - who knows?

    But back to my comments on KD's post. It sounds like a very positive adjustment, or evolution in family dynamics occurred as a result of Ken's, let's call i it "experiment.

    K.D. is one ballsy S.O.B.

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    1. Thank you, Tomy. I appreciate a different view, especially since it recognizes the uniqueness of the situation in a one-size-DOES- NOT-fit-all world.

      And I like being referred to as "ballsy" LOL. I know some who would agree and others who think I'm an easily controlled pussycat. LOL

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