To see a full-size view of the images posted, just click on them.

RULES FOR POSTING COMMENTS: This blog is meant to be interactive. Please utilize the comment feature to respond to posts that prompt a reaction. You do not have to agree with me to post, but I do ask that your comment pertain to the post itself. I also ask that "anonymous" guests attach some sort of name to their comments so readers can tell everyone apart. (If you cannot follow these simple rules, your post may be DELETED or at the very least mocked for the entertainment of those who can respect my guidelines.)

Tuesday, February 18, 2020

R&R

No, not "rest & relaxation" but "Realizations & Rationalizations". I had initially suggested this topic for Dan’s blog topic for the week in an email exchange we had Saturday morning that started on that kinkiest of topics: quantum physics. However, I figured this topic is actually very close to my heart and although it’s one I’ve discussed aspects of before, it is always fun to go back and see how I feel now versus how I used to feel. And in that regard I will be posting an abridged version of this on Dan’s blog and the full version here:


Dan used the quote from this scene in The Big Chill to start off his post. It's all about rationalizations being more important than sex!

I guess the best way to explain how I feel now is to recall how I used to feel when I first began exploring aspects of FLR in general and being spanked specifically. I was 19 when I first asked another person to spank me. It was a difficult and risky conversation to have at that age and at that time, since the subject was nowhere near as prevalent as it is now. It was definitely more of a fringe activity with more than its fair share of stigma. But I refused to live a lie and decided that I needed to keep taking risks being honest with people until I found what I needed.

Interestingly, this person, whom I would later marry and even later divorce, did not run away screaming. She said she would indulge this kink with the understanding that regardless of the reason, once it was settled that a spanking would take place, it would be a spanking in the true sense of the word. She wouldn’t try to kill me or injure me, but she would also not indulge the then common (and still recommended in BDSM circles) practice of warm-ups and coded feedback to ensure the experience was what “I” was enjoying. In her mind, a spanking was not something to be enjoyed….at least not in the moment.

At 19, I was simultaneously thrilled that someone seemed interested in taking the spanking reins and a bit disappointed that the controlled, moderated, sexier method of spanking that seemed to be de rigueur for everyone else was not going to be how things would go with me. And so the very first spanking I got as an adult was much closer to what I remembered as a punished kid than the more recent self-spanking episodes that permeated my pre-dating years.

And, while I appreciated getting some of what I wanted, I found myself struggling with rationalizing a male ego (kinky though it was) with what turned out to be very ‘real-ish’ spankings from a girlfriend who was very much equal to me in age, intelligence, economic background, etc. And she was struggling a bit too, especially since she wasn’t quite sure how dominant she wished to be. It was awkward going. And one solution that worked well for us was using chance, bets, and other non-behavioral excuses for her to spank. 
In my head  I was able to rationalize my submission as just ‘being a good sport’ and honoring the roll of the die (sometimes literally) rather than admit to any need for correction, or desire to be led.

Over time that shifted. It shifted by virtue of maturity and self-acceptance. It also helped that she also came to understand she had a dominant streak that liked being obeyed. Still it wasn’t a smooth fit all of the time and we both still struggled with our roles and rationalized them with further delusions or focus on selectively chosen truths. To be honest, we might just have not been as well-suited as we once thought, or perhaps we just grew apart. Or maybe she just went crazy. But just as it seemed like we hit a sweet stretch of each of us accepting our roles as appropriate in the 90’s, things deteriorated and eventually our relationship ended by 2000.

Other experiments with other people followed. But even then I can’t say that I learned anything significant. Not until Rosa. It was with her that I came in direct contact with some deep realizations which sprung out of ultimately trading in our earlier experimentation with BDSM for a genuine living contract of DD as an additional aspect to what we were already playing with.

In my past marriage we dabbled in genuine punishments and I certainly got a handful, but so few were of this variety that even now I remember what each was for due to their exceptional nature. But Rosa was not nearly as reticent and I was soon getting spanked genuinely and regularly. And to be honest, I appreciated it, but struggled with it as well. What made it more challenging was that at the time of my acquiescence to her authority, I saw it as some subs say, “a gift of submission”. I rationalized my role as this huge concession I was making as a tribute to her and as proof of my devotion. But Rosa didn’t see it that way. She would look at me quizzically whenever I waxed poetic over my role and acceptance of hers and responded with a much more simple view: each of us was merely being what we were meant to be. Each of us was in our natural and proper state…….period. No fancy rationalization, just a statement of blunt fact.

After pondering this, and during discussions with others I came around to a new rationalization: we were merely in the roles we were best suited for. Essentially this was the “My Honey knows best” philosophy. But even this rationalization chafed at the times when I realized that my Honey…...wonderful as she is…...didn’t always know best. Sometimes I knew best and she couldn’t see it. But, here we were: she being in charge  and me being subject to her authority.

Now I have sort of given up on trying to settle on the one, true, rationalization that justifies why a person like me submits to DD with someone like her. Instead, if I need a rationalization, I just pop one into my head for the current situation, even if it doesn’t hold up for the next one. Disposable rationalizations. Use them as needed. Toss ‘em away when you’re done. Some current favorites:

"I need this (a spanking) now, so whatever gets me there….fine."

"This is the way I  am."

"She was right several times when I thought I was, so maybe this time is the same."

"She needs this to feel empowered. Challenging her will thwart her growth."

"I brought this up and agreed to be accountable, so I’m just honoring the terms of the agreement."

"It’ll be over soon, so just suck it up."

"This will be good for me."

In making these up I toyed with a couple more, but those got me thinking that perhaps they weren’t really rationalizations….although they could be:

“I deserve it”

“She wants this and she’ll feel better if I go along with it.”

Each of these address DD as a need to one party or the other and is used to cover up some other less comfortable realization, these can be used as a crutch to get around a stickier wicket.

I’ve mentioned before that I had two long conversations with my mother  about my lifestyle prior to her succumbing to cancer. One was a sort of ‘coming out’ and the second was very detailed. In that second conversation, I confessed some of my struggles with my role and my mother, rather than giving credibility to my occasional difficulties, advised me instead to embrace my role fully rather than resist it. That conversation had a big impact on me and converted several ‘doubts’ that required “rationalizations” into honest, personal realizations. Realizations that like Rosa had said from the outset: “this is just who you are”. When my mother sort of confirmed that, it made it harder to ignore or meander around. It was something I had certainly considered, but it is not something that is easily embraced in a society such as ours.

So now I wish I could say that I am fully secure in my role and never need to rationalize my lifestyle having come to full realization of its appropriateness and efficacy…...but I’d be lying. I still sway back and forth from self-acceptance to self-doubt made palatable with rationalizations and I doubt I will ever be free from the need for them.

Others might be thinking , “what’s the problem? What’s with all this angst over realizations, struggles and rationalizations? If this is you just be you.” And I would ask that person just how many people, particularly male acquaintances or even co-workers, who show no sign of being open to Femdom situations, have they candidly come out to? And if the answer is very few or none, I would ask, “why not?” And if they said, “well that’s something private between me and my wife. It’s none of their business.” I would conclude, “good for you! You just made your first rationalization.” 


"Ya know you'd never get a crowd this big at my funeral."
"I'll come.........and I'll bring a date."



26 comments:

  1. My response is only that with my wife and I we talked about what would be our relationship when we got married. It was she who said that dating she took the lead, it worked. I agreed and so being married, she is taking the lead, life is good. It is two mature adults accepting their roles it is that simple. Jack

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I suppose for some people it is, Jack. You are the lucky ones I guess. It is not for me, though. In fact....nothing is simple for me.

      Delete
  2. first i appreciate the honestly and openness. i hope it was cathartic to write as you did.


    my own relationship with domination etc etc while extremely real and painful is based in play. play i think makes the rationalization easier the rationalization happens during the things we do. boy do i rationalize her dating. as you point out different rationalizations apply to different circumstances. i dont deserve her infidelity. within the confines of why im punished often i do deserve the pain of the punishment

    i think there has to be a question asked at the end of all the activities and rationalizations

    was it fun for you both? are you both happy? would you both do it again?

    when the answer is yes. keep enjoying. if the answer is ever no talk about it. there are plenty of other things to do to and with each other instead

    ReplyDelete
  3. forgot....as to the telling people who are not into such fun activities...
    certainly a rationalization.

    society to a small extent is becoming accepting of men dominating women 50 shades etc

    women dominating men is still laughable and not accepted. exit to eden for example

    people just wouldnt get it

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Exit to Eden seems to me kind of a mixed example. The book portrayed BDSM with a female "top" positively (though in the book the tops and bottoms are mixed with respect to gender). The movie took it all in a comedic direction that was just farce.

      I am, btw, a big Anne Rice fan, though not so much of Exit to Eden or her Beauty series. Instead, I love her Vampire series, particularly The Vampire Lestat. Over the course of the series it explores all sorts of sexual themes, including maternal-son relations, homosexual attraction, etc. While some of it might be seen as tame today, it wasn't at the time they were written.

      Delete
    2. Sissysnow: It was more reflective than cathartic, but I like to go through these exercises in re-evaluation every now and then. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it's just mental gymnastics.

      Basing this in "play" is definitely a way past the angst. But what about when it's not play? For me I'm good with my choices, but being good with them doesn't mean they always flow without hitches.

      Thanks for the comment!

      Delete
    3. Dan: Exit to Eden? Where to begin? I could write pages! It is simply one more of the Story of O-type ilk where BDSM is ........sort of breathlessly indulged......but only at the conclusion that at some point it must be overcome. FUCK Anne Rice! She writes about BDSM like a horny Catholic schoolgirl writes about sex in her diary. I have read enough about her personally to realize she is not unlike a lot of internet kinky wannabes........intrigued, beguiled, but far too timid to engage. Fuck her, I say.

      And the MOVIE? Just research that bad boy! It tested poorly to audiences and was subsequently re-tooled as a comedy to salvage the footage already in the can. Fuck ball-less Gary Marshall! It was a very shitty movie based on a shitty book.

      The Beauty trilogy was occasionally interesting at best, and tirelessly redundant at worst. This was not a trilogy of novels but an ever-descending indulgence of self-directed porn. Did I say, "fuck her" ? Because......"fuck her!"

      Delete
    4. when its not in play....any reply is a rationalization. a wink from my wife tells me she knows she is being unfair or cruel. when i know she knows then its back to play

      Delete
    5. Sissysnow: OK, I see. Those winks would help here I think.

      Delete
  4. "Or maybe she just went crazy." I love that, and I've watched a couple of marriages fail because the woman just seemed to wake up one day a different person.

    I'll repeat here what I wrote in response to your comment on my blog. "She would look at me quizzically whenever I waxed poetic over my role and acceptance of hers and responded with a much more simple view: each of us was merely being what we were meant to be. Each of us was in our natural and proper state…….period. No fancy rationalization, just a statement of blunt fact."

    Part of my envies Rosa her clarity, though is it actually true in your case? She may see her role as a perfect fit for her, but do you feel the same with respect to your role. As we've discussed many times, you submit to her but it's with some pretty big and hard caveats around consent, justice, etc. I'm not criticizing, but it seems like she is a lot more secure that she's landed in the "correct" role than you sometimes are. Again, I'm not criticizing and couldn't on that score because, as described above and in other posts, I am not a "natural" when it comes to any of this. I don't accept or bend ot authority easily, if at all, so very little about FLR feels like a "natural fit." DD is, as I said, more so because of this very, very powerful visceral element that does also correspond nicely to my self-awareness that my behavior and attitude sometimes suck and DD imposes some much needed boundaries that promote some modicum of balance.

    Walking through this makes me wonder how much I *do* rely on rationalizations where DD is concerned, because I think I do see and understand the tensions involved in taking on a role that is not really a natural inclination for me. The rationalization would come in if I tried to find way to characterize as natural something that really isn't. Similarly, I don't spend much time trying to "normalize" DD or make up unsupported claims that it is "really" more popular out there than appears on the surface. I do think my need for DD reflects a certain dysfunctional or disordered personality, one that has an out-sized need for penance and accountability. If I were more balanced, I wouldn't need DD, and I recognize that about myself and don't really feel a need to rationalize it by trying to make it seem "normal" or "natural."

    I do think I rationalize sometimes that my behavior has not improved in some areas by saying DD is still worthwhile because it gives my wife an outlet to express her dissatisfaction. Is that a rationalization? Maybe, though it happens to be true.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. She is definitely more comfortable in her role because she is the one who gets to be in charge. I'm sure a reluctant Top might also need rationalizations to be firm and punish, but is anyone here going to try to deny the Top role is more enviable? It's a simple thing. Forget thrill or acceptance, or sexiness or needs and just put one couple in a conversation with another and let one admit to being the Top in a DD relationship and the other admit to being the sub, especially if it is F/m oriented. Now really, who is in the more embarrassing role?

      That is what I brought up to my mother that time. That on the surface most people would see me as the dominant party and yet I'm the one on the receiving end. As I told her, it might not be that bad and probably could even be a badge of honor to admit that in a purely sex-play scenario. But when it's real spanking for genuine misbehavior? Whip out those rationalizations.

      One point I also should have made in the essay was that the same statement can be a realization or a rationalization or even both at the same time. The line between the two is fuzzy and is defined almost entirely by comfort with the role.....perhaps not always privately, but certainly when comparing oneself to others around us who would not do this. As such your point about possibly needing to be a bit dysfunctional to start with is well-taken. And how many of us are proud of our dysfunctions?

      Delete
    2. I really don't know how my mother would see me. I think it would be as a dominant party, but she can be pretty insightful.

      Delete
    3. Well what was funny with my mother was that she never characterized the appropriateness of this lifestyle for me as consistent with a submissive personality but more so based on "ho I can get" and how others, like Rosa, might be inclined to cope with that. and in that regard, it is a bit more 'realization' than 'rationalization'.

      Delete
    4. My mother probably wouldn't know what a "dominant" or "submissive" is! She does have a "live and let live" mentality on most things, so I think she would be supportive of whatever I thought was appropriate, though she also likely wouldn't want to talk about it very much. Also, if she thought Anne and I were having problems, I think she would be all over Anne taking the reins. They are that one in a hundred relationship in which the wife and daughter-in-law get along great, to the point that Anne visits my mother more than I do.

      Delete
    5. My mother had a surprising understanding of the dynamics in play. Which while surprising given the kinkier aspects, is true to character in the bossy/dominant ones. And she loved, loved, LOVED Rosa! She didn't care that she was younger, or Peruvian, or whatever else.....she told me that she had my best interests and the best interests of the family at heart and that if spanking was something that worked for us, then i should just accept them even if they did hurt and were embarrassing which she admitted they should be. It was one crazy conversation!

      Delete
    6. No doubt. Sounds like your mom, my mom, Rosa and Anne could have formed an interesting lunch club.

      Delete
    7. Perhaps. There does seem to be commonality.

      Delete
  5. Well, I'm uncertain about the precise line between "rationalization" and "realization," some statements that seem like the latter to me, or at least could be the latter, are described as the former by you.

    However, my spousal spankings are basically playful, my wife and I don't have an FL/DD relationship and she doesn't have the mindset for one--I doubt that I do either, although I enjoy reading and fantasizing about such relationships. (For one thing, having one in place fictionally means no need to manipulate plot elements in order to explain why a bigger, stronger male is allowing a female to blister his butt.) So many of your "rationalizations" wouldn't apply to me, although I can try to understand them within a FL/DD situation.

    To me, "This is how I am," "This will be good for me" and "I deserve this" all strike me as valid reasons to accept a truly punitive ass-thrashing from one's accepted disciplinarian, unless you don't really believe them when you tell it to yourself. "This is how I am" certainly is the reason my 'vanilla' wife spanks me on occasion--she can't personally identify with my kink, yet she accepts it and indulges me.

    While "My honey knows best" does seem like the rationalizing of being corporally punished for what you might consider to be questionable reasons, I'd say that "We act as though honey knows best" is valid reasoning--because either you trust Rosa's judgment or you don't, even knowing that as a fallible human she'll make mistakes on occasion. (You did write a rather playful story, "The Top's Mistake," on that theme.)

    I will point out that there may be an employment, family, social and/or professional basis for a person not revealing his/her participation in the spanking kink, it's not always a matter of "rationalization" in keeping it strictly confidential. Also, if a guy has a wife or steady girlfriend, 'outing' himself to someone else is effectively also 'outing' her--it's not difficult to figure that if he's getting his posterior paddled, she's almost certainly the one swinging the paddle.

    Personally, I wouldn't mind 'outing' myself as someone occasionally having a spousally-produced red rear to a couple close friends or family members, after all we're in the 2020s now, however it would likely embarrass and upset my wife--then I might never get to take another seat-stinging trip across her lap... --C.K.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. CK: "Well, I'm uncertain about the precise line between "rationalization" and "realization," some statements that seem like the latter to me, or at least could be the latter, are described as the former by you."

      Me: Holy crap! That's exactly what I said in reply to something about this at Dan's blog. Ck, really, if you haven't you should really consider visiting Dan's blog. It is beyond doubt the finest F/m DD-oriented bog on the internet. Even if that's not your 100% baileywick.....you'd appreciate the level of discourse. It puts the wish-I-may/wish-I-might crap at the LSF to shame.

      >>>>>>>>However, my spousal spankings are basically playful, my wife and I don't have an FL/DD relationship and she doesn't have the mindset for one--I doubt that I do either, although I enjoy reading and fantasizing about such relationships. (For one thing, having one in place fictionally means no need to manipulate plot elements in order to explain why a bigger, stronger male is allowing a female to blister his butt.) So many of your "rationalizations" wouldn't apply to me, although I can try to understand them within a FL/DD situation.<<<<<<<

      This is significant. Not a condemnation but a statement of fact. When it's "play" ? Hell yeah! Anything goes. But when it's serious? Now the complications manifest.

      >>>>>>>To me, "This is how I am," "This will be good for me" and "I deserve this" all strike me as valid reasons to accept a truly punitive ass-thrashing from one's accepted disciplinarian, unless you don't really believe them when you tell it to yourself. "This is how I am" certainly is the reason my 'vanilla' wife spanks me on occasion--she can't personally identify with my kink, yet she accepts it and indulges me.<<<<<<<

      Between you and her. yes. But what do you tell yourself if you had to admit that to a non-kinky co-worker? That's where the rationalizations kick in.

      >>>>>>While "My honey knows best" does seem like the rationalizing of being corporally punished for what you might consider to be questionable reasons, I'd say that "We act as though honey knows best" is valid reasoning--because either you trust Rosa's judgment or you don't, even knowing that as a fallible human she'll make mistakes on occasion. (You did write a rather playful story, "The Top's Mistake," on that theme.)<<<<<<


      Delete
    2. CK: Part 2: And as I said, playful is all-forgiving, but reality? Hmmmmm, CK. I think you need to be there to understand.

      >>>>>>I will point out that there may be an employment, family, social and/or professional basis for a person not revealing his/her participation in the spanking kink, it's not always a matter of "rationalization" in keeping it strictly confidential. Also, if a guy has a wife or steady girlfriend, 'outing' himself to someone else is effectively also 'outing' her--it's not difficult to figure that if he's getting his posterior paddled, she's almost certainly the one swinging the paddle.<<<<<<<

      But that's my point. If this rationale of "this is who we are" is so "normal" then none of that employment shit should matter....... but it does....right? So......get those rationalizations ready.

      >>>>>>Personally, I wouldn't mind 'outing' myself as someone occasionally having a spousally-produced red rear to a couple close friends or family members, after all we're in the 2020s now, however it would likely embarrass and upset my wife--then I might never get to take another seat-stinging trip across her lap<<<<<<

      And again I say, if it's so "okay" then why worry no matter who you tell? But......it DOES matter. And the rationalizations inevitably follow.

      Good comment, CK. You really should visit Dan's blog. I personally would welcome your insight if not your actual DD experience, as I'm sure Dan would as well.

      Delete
    3. Dan: The Library of Spanking Fiction.....linked in my margin. It's where my stories reside along with CK's. And about 2000 others LOL.

      Delete
    4. First of all, I'll agree completely that it would be much easier, meaning more likely to be accepted by others, for me to 'sell' getting my butt whacked by my wife as kinky sex-play (which it basically is) than as a serious DD lifestyle choice--although in either case, it would be a significantly easier 'sell' if the genders were reversed.

      I certainly never meant to suggest that either approach would be considered "okay" in overall American society, although there are undoubtedly more people who would accept it now (especially if it were M/F in gender orientation) than say 10-15 years ago.

      Saying that "This is who I am" isn't stating that it's "normal," nor does it mean that it's necessarily going to be accepted by others, even if they'll concede that it's part of my erotic identity. (A pedophile could make that claim, after all, however very few people would approve him him/her acting on that identify of his/hers.) Even today, numerous people would undoubtedly claim that being a spankophile is a "negative" or even "perverted" aspect of a person's psyche, and should be resisted and repressed rather than indulged.

      I'm retired now, however my occupation was rather image-oriented, and I don't consider it any kind of "rationalization" to have protected my income, career and reputation. I clearly wasn't going to operate based on how tolerant society "should be," as opposed to how lacking in tolerance it still actually is.

      Since my darling 'vanilla' wife is obliging enough to paddle my posterior occasionally because she loves me, I do feel that I should respect her desire not to be 'outed' as my spanker (which would almost certainly happen were I to 'out' myself), even if I believe that she's overly concerned about anybody finding out--which I believe she clearly is. (She has *zero* knowing contact with anyone else, meaning online or in RL, who has admitted to this kink, so she doesn't internalize that it's relatively widespread and not necessarily serious "deviance.")

      As to what would've happened had a non-kinky colleague discovered my spankophile tendencies, I suppose I'd have employed the "This is who I am" explanation (which has the advantages of both simplicity and truth) and asked him/her to keep that knowledge confidential.

      Although I'm not in an FL/DD relationship, I can appreciate that a 'bottom' in such an arrangement might need to come up with a "rationalization" for undergoing an undesired, and possibly even undeserved, truly punitive ass-thrashing.

      To me, the reasons I've given for not telling any others about my submissive marital spanking play, which now primarily involve how my wife would react, strike me as perfectly valid rather than "rationalizations." If it were purely based on my feelings, by now I'd probably have 'outed' myself to a few close friends and/or family members... --C.K.

      Delete
    5. CK: We might well be talking around the same truths and using different perspectives to express ourselves. I fully understand that protecting one's job and respecting the wishes of a significant other are important. And 'yes' you can do one while still recognizing one's own identity.....but my point was that those external perceptions.....inaccurate as they may be.....are ingrained into the overall mores of our society to the degree that even if minimal, they can haunt even the most secure and determined person. At the times I have argued the validity of DD to a non-dd person, I used arguments that when I was alone afterwards echoed in my head, leaving me to wonder who I was really trying to convince. It's that duality of whether the same statement can be both a realization or a rationalization that inspired this topic.

      And "this is who I am" is probably today's ready weapon to justify most anything. At its best and most honest, it is an affirmation of our right to be content in our choices, but at its worst, it is a catch-all used to justify anything without the effort of self-analysis.

      And a minor point. the rationalizations for DD I sometimes run through my head are not always .....and probably quite rarely...used to enable me to accept something undesirable or undeserved. Even that which is desired and deserved can prompt the one on the receiving end to question why they are allowing themselves this treatment when the majority of people around them would not stand for it, including the person about to punish them.

      Dan's point about DD possibly being a coping mechanism for slightly damaged people may well be the unpleasant but possibly accurate explanation. And as such.....if one is going to indulge in it.....some occasional rationalizations may come into use.

      Good exchange, CK!

      Delete
    6. Yeah, that "this is who I am" thing is a decidedly mixed bag. Authenticity is a powerful force that seems to really attract people. Trump is a degenerate pig, and his followers kind of know that, but the more embarrassing and loathsome his behavior the more they praise him for being "authentic." I often tell younger professionals who I'm mentoring. "Be yourself. Unless yourself is an asshole or an douchebag, in which case be something else."

      Delete
    7. Dan: I like that. I used to have a different version: "Be yourself.....as long as it is consistent with what I expect you to be."

      Delete